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Old 08-06-09, 18:24
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Originally Posted by Ellie H View Post
Am bored of this now.

Don't need to be reading stuff like this on a 'meltdown' day.

Well done Imperfectmummy.

I'm with Rachaelmae, why is it sooo important to over complicate and medicalise this issue? All babies are different. Fact.

xxxxxxxxxxxx
A good read of the Politics of Breastfeeding will explain this. The very fact that we are living in a bottlefeeding culture means breastfeeding is a very new concept for many mothers - many have never witnessed a baby being breastfed. In countries where breastfeeding is the norm it isn't overcomplicated and mums do just get on with it. It's not so much medicalising the issue as understanding how the breasts produce milk - something CBC clearly doesn't understand.

All babies are different. That is why BFC's are trained to give research based evidence from various sources to enable mothers to make a truly informed decision and why they concentrate on being baby led rather than trying to get baby to fall into some routine - some do naturally, whilst many others don't.

Last edited by fussymum : 08-06-09 at 18:28.
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Old 08-06-09, 22:00
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Wow! I didn't expect that. All I can say is please keep an open mind what works for one person doesn't work for another. I am not critical of organisations such as the NCT (my sisters experience was not the same as mine) and I believe that any advise that works and enables mums to feed the way they wish to is a good thing.

I spoke to 2 NCT advisors and they were lovely but my baby still cried and cried and I was feeding practically 24 hours a day! She is a different baby now and we are both happy. I still feed fairly frequently but now she is happy between feeds and doesn't cry very often. CBC's advise really worked for me.

I want other mums to know there is an alternative - there is room for all advise groups but mum's need to be able to find the advise that works for them personally (just as people have to with other body parts we dont all take the same medicine or see the same doctors do we) - surely fussymum it doesn't matter who gives that advise if the outcome is good and mums continue to breastfeed or are happy with their choice.

New mums - my advise is find what works for you please dont dismiss CBC.

Annabel Karmel - you should be proud to be linked to CBC her aim is to help mums breastfeed, she is an expert in what she does I am proof!. Its not my place to say, but I will! I think this site needs to stand by the decision to use CBC and support her. You chose to use CBC for the reasons many, many mums do i.e she knows what she is doing) It would be a shame if mums didn't get to hear her advise. Yes some wont like it (and that is fine) that is exactly what other websites and groups are for, but for mums like me she maybe just be the person that improves the amount of successful breast feeders.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-09, 22:11
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Originally Posted by fussymum View Post
A good read of the Politics of Breastfeeding will explain this.
Am far too busy actually learning to breastfeed my 17 day old daughter to have the time.

Jusr re-read my last reply and wanted to clarify that I meant well done to Imperfectmummy for getting through a rough patch.

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Old 08-06-09, 22:18
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Originally Posted by Ellie H View Post
Am far too busy actually learning to breastfeed my 17 day old daughter to have the time.

Jusr re-read my last reply and wanted to clarify that I meant well done to Imperfectmummy for getting through a rough patch.

xxxxxxxxxx
Read whilst bfing perhaps?
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Old 08-06-09, 22:22
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Imperfectmummy - I am *really* glad it worked out for you - honest I am, but the point I keep making, is although it worked for you there may well be 10 that the same advise has caused to stop bf.

Sorry to do this to Ladybug - but I am going to copy and paste her excellent critique of advise she gave on low milk supply which sounds very similar to what you received:-

I have looked at all of one page, and am already sweating.

Sorry to bring it up again, ladies. If you go onto the homepage and click the breastfeeding link, you'll see all the stuff that has been posted from CBC.

Look at this: Low Milk Supply | Annabel Karmel

"I am worried that I donít have enough milk. How can I check?

This is something many mothers worry about, and it is often the case that there isn't a problem with supply. It is difficult to accept that you can't measure how much your baby feeds, especially if you are more familiar with bottle feeding. If your baby is unsettled, there may be other reasons for this. Wind, nappy, overtired etc. Also, try to keep your baby on the breast until he comes off himself. Feed on demand, not to a schedule. If weight-gain is a concern, please consult the growth charts for breastfed babies, not formula fed.


Clare Byam-Cook says
If your baby is unsettled and not gaining weight, he is not getting enough milk. Using a breast pump is the best way to check whether this is because your supply is low or because he is not sucking well enough to get all the milk out. Don't try and use a pump in the early weeks. Chances are your baby is suckling fine, check position and attachment.You can establish which it is by offering a top-up immediately after he has finished feeding on the breast; if he drinks some milk this shows that he wanted more than he got from the breast.Again, don't start mixing bottle teats and breast in the early weeks. Just keep that baby on the boob!

You should then immediately use your pump to see how much milk was left in the breast compared with how much he took from the bottle; if you can easily express the same amount your supply is fine and it is his feeding that is the problem. If you canít express any milk, then your supply is low.Many many many mums cannot express even half an ounce, despite having a bounteous supply...

Another simple way of checking is to substitute several breast feeds with a bottle FFS and then use the pump to see how much milk you can express at each feed compared with the amount he took from the bottle."



This advice would be awful for someone who has a poor supply. Worst bit is, it's a commonly asked question and this advice sucks... (no pun intended...)
Last edited by ladybug : 16-05-09 at 14:1
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Old 08-06-09, 23:26
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Fussy mum why does CBC's advise bother you so much? It is working for me and has for many others. I am not asking you to follow the advise just for others not to dismiss it after reading negative, unsupported comments such as yours.

You are been very unfair to CBC and patronising to me! I rarely go on sites and post messages, in fact I never do, but CBC had been such a great help to me I wanted other mums to know about her - My husband is getting tired of typing my replys now! but before I sign out I am interested to know:

Why are you "confused" that I asked CBC for help? It is hard to portray on a post how truly desperate I had become I was not simply whinging about a few unsettled days while my baby went through a growth spurt. I was reaching breaking point and had been close to it for a number of weeks. Over this time I had spoke on the phone to two NCT advisors and needed someone else to turn to. Thank god I did as I would not be feeling like I do today - Its not perfect now but I see light at the end of the tunnel and thanks to Clare my baby is happier and i am still BF.

Sorry to be rude but are you a breastfeeding advisor? If so how much time do you spend actually helping mothers face-to-face rather than simply stating facts like all mothers have enough milk etc as I know for a fact I did not have enouigh milk. Why do you think you are right and Clare is wrong?

Also what evidence do you personally have to back up the statement that expressing is not an indicator of how good a supply is. Have you ever test-weighed a baby to see how much milk she has extracted from the breast to back up this conclusion?

Can you explain how after 6 weeks of non stop feeding my baby hadn't increased my supply (my latch was good)? Why would my baby settle perfectly when fed from the bottle, but does not settle when fed from the breast? Does this not prove that my baby was so unsettled simply because she was hungry?

I am going now to focus on feeding and loving my baby but please fussymum really think about the above. Try to be open minded to others advice you never know you maybe able to use it to help others where "conventional" advise has failed.
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Old 08-06-09, 23:35
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Hi Imperfectmummy (aren't we all...)

Glad to hear your bfing problems have been solved

I just want to reassure anyone who is reading these threads that, really, using expressing to evaluate how much milk you have is not ideal...

And, urm... I am tentatively repliying to this, and considering deleting... This stuff is really getting to me now...

Anyways, um... babies tend to seem more settled after a bottle coz it's heavier stuff and kinda hits their tummies so they have to sleep it off. So, urm, it doesn't necessarily prove that she was hungry. I haven't met you imperfectmummy, or your baby, so have no clue if your little baby was hungry... I would just implore others reading all of this not to jump to the conclusion (in your own case) that you're not providing enough milk... get to a breastfeeding group and chat to people face to face for help.

*sighs*
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Old 08-06-09, 23:52
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Sorry to be a pain but just clarify my baby settled happily after feeding from breast milk that I expressed throughout a number of expressing sessions not just formula.

I dont want to cause you to delete anything. I guess each person should do what is best for them and their baby. Lets not all judge and dismiss each other or the advise of professionals.
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Old 09-06-09, 08:29
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Just to let you know I will reply to your post Imperfectmummy........and fwiw imo you are the only one on here who has come back with anything constructive. I am very busy (and not bored at all thank you Noababy) but there are a number of points you made that I would like to respond to properly in what I hope you will find is in a helpful manner.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-09, 08:36
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Originally Posted by fussymum View Post
fwiw imo you are the only one on here who has come back with anything constructive.
That is insulting to anyone on this forum who has taken the time to respond to you, whether you agree with their opinion or not.

I could've done with some breastfeeding support yesterday, but I'm sorry to say you would be the last person on earth I'd ask.

You say your arguement is with CBC but it seems to me you just want to argue with anyone who might be a little more open minded than yourself.

We all understand the point you have made, hundreds of times. Please stop treating us like children.

Last edited by Ellie H : 09-06-09 at 08:56.
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